Questions for Arne Duncan
The School of Hard Drives
Interview by DEBORAH SOLOMON
This interview is for a special issue on education and technology, so let me start by asking you about computers in classrooms. As the secretary of education, do you think every kid in America needs a computer?
I think every student needs access to technology, and I think technology can be a hugely important vehicle to help level the playing field. Whether it’s in an inner-city school or a rural community, I want those students to have a chance to take A.P. biology and A.P. physics and marine biology.
Joshua Roberts for The New York Times
What does that have to do with having a computer?
We have thousands of students today taking online classes. We actually have virtual schools today.
How horrible. How can you compare the experience of acquiring knowledge from a beloved high-school teacher to acquiring information from a machine?
There are schools that don’t have a beloved high-school teacher to teach A.P. physics. That’s what I’m talking about.
Did you see the study that showed that the only category in which American students remain No. 1 is self-esteem? We have great confidence in ourselves, even if our competence has declined.
As a country, we have dropped. The brutal truth is that we have fallen from first to ninth in the world in the percentage of college graduates in a generation.
Which country has the highest percentage of college graduates?
South Korea is one that I watch very closely. South Korea, Japan, Canada, New Zealand and Norway are the top five.
Have you seen the new film “Waiting for Superman,” a documentary opening this week that makes public education in this country seem totally dysfunctional?
I did. I think it’s going to help the country to understand the tremendous sense of urgency that I feel. We have parents who know their child is getting a subpar education. That is devastating to them and ultimately it’s devastating to our country.
The film blames teachers’ unions for the failure of public schools because the unions have made it almost impossible to fire lazy teachers. Are you against teachers’ unions?
Of course not. I’m a big fan of Randi’s.
Randi Weingarten, of the American Federation of Teachers? The film depicts her as a villain.
I think Randi is providing some courageous leadership and is actually taking some heat internally in the union because she said publicly that the union shouldn’t be protecting bad teachers.
Are there that many bad teachers in American public schools?
Are there some? Absolutely. The bigger issue for me going forward is we have a baby-boomer generation that’s getting ready to retire. This country is going to need a million new teachers. You can’t fire your way to the top.
You’re a former professional basketball player who knew President Obama when you were head of the Chicago school system. How often do you talk to him?
It varies. We have a great working relationship, and we have some fun playing ball together as well.
I read that you grew up without a television set.
I did. We were dinosaurs. So instead of watching TV, we read every night together as a family. Dad read, Mom read. We read all the classics. “Tom Sawyer,” “Huck Finn,” “Moby-Dick.” We read the Tolkien series.
How old are your children?
My little guys are 6 and 8.
What will you do if they ask you to buy them an Xbox?
Not a fan. No, absolutely not.
What about teaching school kids how to fix computers? I think that’s really important.
I love it. We have a whole program in Chicago where we actually hired dozens of high-school students to refurbish computers.
Good, because otherwise broken computers are thrown away, and education money will go to Apple to replace them instead of to teachers.
No, no, no, and often, as you know, the young people are way ahead of the adults.
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